Thanks! I was a little worried that my writing about this would either come off as too stuffy and pedantic or as ignorant and untethered from proper form.
Could we possibly discuss the concept of "actual form" at some point? I'm curious about whether we adhere to standards imposed by others or choose to chart our unique paths.
Take E.E. Cummings as a prime example.
Additionally, I appreciate your decision, Jason, to omit periods at the end of your haikus. It's a personal choice that suits you well.
I've never enrolled in a poetry class because I didn't want to be influenced by the conventions of what some consider "proper" poetry, particularly those dictated by a certain cultural perspective.
I have always been a little timid to play with punctuation, but I should probably be a little braver.
I also have a healthy fear if exclamation marks in written poetry...sometimes they come out in my spoken word as a note to myself but that's generally it.
One thing that has helped me be more experimental is Keith Houston's book, Shady Characters. It's a fascinating history of punctuation and other typographical marks.
Yes! 🗽 This is Lady Liberty- an adultress emoji who makes her own freedom. The fun is in finding gaps, innovating, and making new rules. Gotta be ready to stand up for your freedom though.
These are the people who haven't yet understood the bigger picture of poetry. They have spotted some of the things we do to create poetry, but still have more to learn.
Those purists seem so joyless to me. I think the purists are holding onto conventions that make sense in Japanese and fail to realize that English language haiku has evolved into being its own thing. I also agree with Ivy-Rose, I get perverse pleasure in breaking poetry rules!
I love the ellipse between open and free! To me at least, that makes that line more passionate. I also love the em dash in the last line, but I never met an em dash that I didn't like :) Thanks for sharing your poem
This is great! Thanks for laying out all the punctuation options. It's really helpful to compare your final form to other punctuation options. You can really see how the arrow is the most impactful, and richly conveys the feeling of the moment. And I like that it's unconventional - I'm not sure it would have occurred to me to use an arrow this way, well done!
Right! It certainly conveys a level of meaning that's well beyond "pause" or "longer-pause", doesn't it? I suppose it's technically a typographical symbol, but mostly I just like how it stirs up creativity and discussion.
Oh, the delightful tradition of exclamation marks has been warmly passed down through the generations in my family.
My grandmother, her lovely daughters, and their cherished daughters have always sprinkled their decades of weekly letters to each other with these delightful punctuations.
Our uniqueness and individuality stem from our differences. Despite the vast expanse of vocabulary in every dictionary across the globe, words fall short of encapsulating our essence fully.
We are "logophiles.” Those who have a deep passion or love for words and language. We never tire of enjoying, exploring and appreciating the beauty and intricacies of words, their meanings, and their usage.
Same here we live in the valley of the sun - surrounded by several mountains. More “rock formations” but mountains. Further north the red rocks of Sedona are very nice too. Vegas has grown since I last visited! But outside of where the casinos live it is beautiful there!
We are fortunate to reside just 45 minutes away from the lively casinos in northwest Las Vegas. Interestingly, this proximity also places us a mere 25 minutes away from the enchanting Mount Charleston, which feels like a completely different universe. What truly captivates me about this area is the remarkable diversity it offers, not only in terms of geography but also in its vibrant community of people.
Excellent! My former MIL lives in an area like that. She was in Henderson but moved to Vegas Her Daughter lives on a ranch in the area as well. I’m sure it is different but what I seem to think of is the outer part of Palm Springs - the Main Street is through town & the golf & expensive homes are close but a little further out there are family homes and gorgeous sunsets.
I love seeing this progression! The semicolon and colon are two great marks to play with. I like how in poetry a semicolon feels like a pause between a comma and a period.
So true. This past week I read, perhaps you wrote it, I can't remember, that once you publish something it's no longer "yours," but "theirs," the people's, the viewer's, etc., and that if they can get something out of it, no matter the artist's original intention, then, by all means, mazel tov!
Oh I love this post! Punctuation is the most interesting part of writing to me. The different punctuation marks in the same line of poetry beautifully show how powerful those little marks can be!
Music to my ears! Had no idea so many of us existed! My dad & older sister introduced me to crosswords & Scrabble at a very young age - it turned out to be a beautiful addiction
I've been making a full-time living from the "internet" for more than 10 years, and have been active online for much longer, but Substack is the first time I've ever felt like I've found my people!
It is really enjoyable!! I thought I was just a weirdo habit for me. Trying to figure out new words by they derivation of prefix etc. I was told in several offices that I used too many big words and to me they were just normal words which I thought others knew & used. 🤦♀️ I was not the oddball they were the dumbasses!!
I think that’s too broad a generality. I think that good poetry does not lend itself to multiple meanings, but to layered ones. That’s where the ambiguity comes in.
Excellent analysis of the use of punctuation. Different types gives the reader different chances to reflect on various meanings.
Thanks! I was a little worried that my writing about this would either come off as too stuffy and pedantic or as ignorant and untethered from proper form.
Could we possibly discuss the concept of "actual form" at some point? I'm curious about whether we adhere to standards imposed by others or choose to chart our unique paths.
Take E.E. Cummings as a prime example.
Additionally, I appreciate your decision, Jason, to omit periods at the end of your haikus. It's a personal choice that suits you well.
I've never enrolled in a poetry class because I didn't want to be influenced by the conventions of what some consider "proper" poetry, particularly those dictated by a certain cultural perspective.
I’d love to talk about form! That sounds like a good topic for next week’s haiku prompt post.
I have always been a little timid to play with punctuation, but I should probably be a little braver.
I also have a healthy fear if exclamation marks in written poetry...sometimes they come out in my spoken word as a note to myself but that's generally it.
One thing that has helped me be more experimental is Keith Houston's book, Shady Characters. It's a fascinating history of punctuation and other typographical marks.
I shall look it up, thank you for the recommendation!
I was a gramma perfectionist for many years but now I no longer give one damn
Oh my the other think I WAS picky about was SPELLING!! That should have said GRAMMAR!! Although I am a Grammy (Gramma) 😂
Purists Haiku nazis see any capital letter or punctuation as a sign that you aren't a real poet if you break the rules of poetry.
I think the joy of poetry comes from breaking the rules sometimes
Yes! 🗽 This is Lady Liberty- an adultress emoji who makes her own freedom. The fun is in finding gaps, innovating, and making new rules. Gotta be ready to stand up for your freedom though.
Problem is, people think they can get poetry merely by breaking the rules.
I think the most interesting art happens by being selective about rules. Follow some, bend some, and break others.
These are the people who haven't yet understood the bigger picture of poetry. They have spotted some of the things we do to create poetry, but still have more to learn.
Those purists seem so joyless to me. I think the purists are holding onto conventions that make sense in Japanese and fail to realize that English language haiku has evolved into being its own thing. I also agree with Ivy-Rose, I get perverse pleasure in breaking poetry rules!
Haiku accents sound like Yoda to me.
If you don’t have rules, you won’t get poetry. However, YRMV.
The sky open...free
to a canvas of delight
Everyone— welcome
I wrote this poem last Friday but I played around with the punctuation. Thank you Jason for this gentle nudge! :)
I love the ellipse between open and free! To me at least, that makes that line more passionate. I also love the em dash in the last line, but I never met an em dash that I didn't like :) Thanks for sharing your poem
Thank you Jason! I think this version I like better too. :)
Love it
Thanks!
Another masterclass. Keeping this for the young ones.
Thanks! 🙏
This is great! Thanks for laying out all the punctuation options. It's really helpful to compare your final form to other punctuation options. You can really see how the arrow is the most impactful, and richly conveys the feeling of the moment. And I like that it's unconventional - I'm not sure it would have occurred to me to use an arrow this way, well done!
Thanks! I think after writing 3,300+ haiku, I'm starting to open up to some crazier ideas like arrows made from punctuation in poems 🤣
Oh, is that all it takes?!😂
But is an arrow punctuation? I think an arrow is a word. Or maybe two.
Right! It certainly conveys a level of meaning that's well beyond "pause" or "longer-pause", doesn't it? I suppose it's technically a typographical symbol, but mostly I just like how it stirs up creativity and discussion.
And my parents said my love of stirring shit up would ever get me anywhere! 😂
Oh, the delightful tradition of exclamation marks has been warmly passed down through the generations in my family.
My grandmother, her lovely daughters, and their cherished daughters have always sprinkled their decades of weekly letters to each other with these delightful punctuations.
I am overjoyed to carry on this whimsical custom!
That's a great tradition! I probably just need to get over myself 🤣
Our uniqueness and individuality stem from our differences. Despite the vast expanse of vocabulary in every dictionary across the globe, words fall short of encapsulating our essence fully.
😂 FB once did a most used over the. Year - mine was exclamation points (marks)
Right on, Girlfriend!!!!
Adultress emoji
Cheats on all punctuations
First capital sin
This is great! It definitely made me smile!
THAT IS BRILLIANT.
me too play endlessly with punctuation and even word order....
Playing with words is one of life’s great joys
We are "logophiles.” Those who have a deep passion or love for words and language. We never tire of enjoying, exploring and appreciating the beauty and intricacies of words, their meanings, and their usage.
How my work for this prompt has unfolded over the day.
🏜️
Amid desert peaks,
Vegas skyline pulses bright,
Welcomes night's mystique
Stars mirror neon,
Desert's quiet encased by
Vibrant dusk till dawn
Sky's palette blends with
Mountain silhouette, city
Dances in twilight
🏜️
Amid desert peaks,
Vegas’ skyline pulses bright;
Welcomes night’s mystique.
Stars mirror neon,
Desert’s quiet, encased by
Vibrant dusk 'til dawn.
Sky’s palette blends with
Mountain silhouette; city
Dances in twilight.
🏜️
Amid desert peaks,
Vegas’ skyline—pulses bright;
Welcomes...night’s mystique.
Stars mirror: neon.
Desert’s quiet, encased by
Vibrant dusk...till dawn?
Sky’s palette blends with
Mountain silhouette; city
Dances—in twilight.
🏜️
Amid desert peaks,
Vegas’ skyline—pulses:bright!
Welcomes...night’s mystique
Stars:mirror neon,
Desert’s quiet? Encased by
Vibrant dusk—till dawn
Sky’s palette:blends with
Mountain silhouette; city
Dances—in twilight
Love this because I live in the desert in Arizona- we have fantastic sky shows!
Vegas is really pretty because it’s surrounded by mountains.
Same here we live in the valley of the sun - surrounded by several mountains. More “rock formations” but mountains. Further north the red rocks of Sedona are very nice too. Vegas has grown since I last visited! But outside of where the casinos live it is beautiful there!
We are fortunate to reside just 45 minutes away from the lively casinos in northwest Las Vegas. Interestingly, this proximity also places us a mere 25 minutes away from the enchanting Mount Charleston, which feels like a completely different universe. What truly captivates me about this area is the remarkable diversity it offers, not only in terms of geography but also in its vibrant community of people.
Excellent! My former MIL lives in an area like that. She was in Henderson but moved to Vegas Her Daughter lives on a ranch in the area as well. I’m sure it is different but what I seem to think of is the outer part of Palm Springs - the Main Street is through town & the golf & expensive homes are close but a little further out there are family homes and gorgeous sunsets.
I love seeing this progression! The semicolon and colon are two great marks to play with. I like how in poetry a semicolon feels like a pause between a comma and a period.
Today . . .
I found out . . . .
Too much . . .
Also, great post. And, "unhinged" exclamation points. That may be my "spirit punctuation mark." Just saying.
Thanks! I probably need to do mushrooms of something and relax about the exclamation points 😂
Double check yes please for psychedelic exclamation points!!! lol
I like this! It sounds like the first scene in a murder mystery.
Thanks, Jason. I had something completely different in mind, but I like your first impression much better!
Haha! Thanks. I think we never really grasp what a writer had in mind. That gap might be what makes art possible and so frustrating
So true. This past week I read, perhaps you wrote it, I can't remember, that once you publish something it's no longer "yours," but "theirs," the people's, the viewer's, etc., and that if they can get something out of it, no matter the artist's original intention, then, by all means, mazel tov!
I am still reading your poetry, but had a couple of trips that were wonderful, but ended not so wonderfully.
I was enjoying writing, well learning to write haiku - haikus? Cactus - Cacti hmmm
Either way I hope to get back to better health and back to writing!
I enjoy it so much!
Thank you for allowing me to drop in & write!
You’re welcome to drop in any time! I hope you get back to good health soon.
Thank you so much - finally headed in the right direction! Thanks so much for the invitation!
Oh I love this post! Punctuation is the most interesting part of writing to me. The different punctuation marks in the same line of poetry beautifully show how powerful those little marks can be!
Thanks! Substack is such a great place for word nerds and punctuationphiles
Word Nerds!
Music to my ears! Had no idea so many of us existed! My dad & older sister introduced me to crosswords & Scrabble at a very young age - it turned out to be a beautiful addiction
I've been making a full-time living from the "internet" for more than 10 years, and have been active online for much longer, but Substack is the first time I've ever felt like I've found my people!
It is really enjoyable!! I thought I was just a weirdo habit for me. Trying to figure out new words by they derivation of prefix etc. I was told in several offices that I used too many big words and to me they were just normal words which I thought others knew & used. 🤦♀️ I was not the oddball they were the dumbasses!!
Love this and lovelove punctuation.
Thank you! I love how what I knew would be a very niche post is helping me find my fellow punctation nerds!
It's a great post!
I found this very entertaining. However, I wound up liking most the ambiguity in the one lacking punctuation.
That's the cool thing about poetry, everyone is going to have a different read.
I think that’s too broad a generality. I think that good poetry does not lend itself to multiple meanings, but to layered ones. That’s where the ambiguity comes in.